Part 32: Best of the thread: Part One
OK, I want this thread to go in the archives, but before it does, I want to collect a sort of summary of the posts in this thread that I thought were entertaining, informative, or both. This is kind of a thank you to the people who posted in this thread and made me chuckle or gave me inspiration to write an update. And I can't claim that there won't be some of my posts in there too.
It's sort of a Daikatana timeline.Maybe people who didn't read the thread can see what they missed. And if I didn't include your post, fuck you. Shut up and stop whining.
MrBims posted:
On a side note, everyone should read this "essay" on "Why Daikatana is OK". The guy who wrote it outright says that Daikatana is responsible for the creation of games like Half-Life and Deus Ex because it "forced" game developers to adapt Daikatana's use of diverse (probably meaning that some maps have frogs and mosquitos and some don't) worlds to their own games. This is just amazingly stupid.
Rich N. Black posted:
Why did those ninjas in the intro just kind of punch you out and leave? Who does that?
Proteus4994 posted:
OK, so we just did the second level, and we ALREADY had to noclip just to be able to play. So since that cat was out of the bag, I start noclipping to speed the level up. That said, it already took 40 minutes even with noclipping. This game is destroying my soul.
Suspicious posted:
The best part about "I can't leave without my buddy Superfly" is how it prevents me from accidentally exiting a level when I'm looking for secrets.
Inversion Impulse posted:
When you realize the sampo of this game, the legendary sword/deus ex machina of the whole crapic, is called "The Big Sword," the game becomes even more unintentionally hilarious. I doubt Romero realizes this--he really does come off as a 14 year old fanboy who just watched Akira and Ninja Scroll in the process of making this game and went, "Man, wouldn't it be awesome if I mixed the two TOGETHER!?" To avoid going too tangential, you'd think he'd take a hint from the RPG's he loves so much and call the game/big sword MASAMUNE or MURAMASA or the name of some other fairly legendary/RPG-flavored super-katana.
Also, according to Wikipedia, the titular big sword is based off a super-weapon from a D&D campaign John ran when id Software was just starting. I know that Doom had similar origins, and a lot of other good things (like the anime "Slayers") were based off the creators' geeky roleplaying sessions, but this isn't one of those things.
DK posted:
One thing I've never heard much about in the negative reviews but that is really coming through in this LP is how unbelievably terrible all the weapons are. The Ion Blaster ricochets hurt you and it explodes in water. The anemic C4 launcher shoots so weakly and inaccurately that it kills you more often than the enemies, and the shotgun thing is the kind of gloriously retarded "superweapon" that only the metalhead in the back of the remedial math class could come up with, doodling it in the margins of his incoherent notebook. I can't wait to see what's next.
That's the game's real problem, I think. If it was just bad, it would be tolerable. If it was just stupid, it would be tolerable. When you combine the horrible with this teenage level badass posturing, it becomes amazingly absurd. Romero's truly frightening level of manchildism is revealed to the world. Even without the infamous "bitch" ad, it's clear in the game itself. That's what makes this LP so entertaining to watch. Well, that and pure schadenfreude.
Inversion Impulse posted:
It's like Romero thought that making a game with normal weapons just wasn't good enough. No, let's make the pistol bounce back and hurt you and ALSO make it electrocute you underwater. Let's make the shotgun, normally the go-to weapon in any FPS, a total waste of ammo since it fires six times every time you hit the fire button! And also the grenade launchers should kill you more than they kill the enemy because the blast radius is ridiculously large!
But it isn't that the game sucks, with the combination of worthless weapons and constantly moving enemies with very tiny hitboxes it's that we're all unable to play a fast-paced action-RPG FPS designed with real experts in mind, just like John Romero says.
Evil Tim posted:
PlanetDaikatana has the best FAQ ever.
quote:
3. Where to get the FAQ.
To obtain a copy of this FAQ, please visit PlanetDaikatana. PlanetDaikatana is an ION Storm devoted site run by fans and is in no way affiliated with ION Storm. PlanetDaikatana is a part of the GameSpy community.
I know that Daikatana fans must be rather 'different' to normal humans, but still...'How can I get this FAQ?' *in* the damn FAQ?
Critical posted:
John Romero posted:
I've gone on record to say that I'm proud of the PC version of Daikatana and I stand behind that. It was not meant to be a beginner's FPS but rather an expert FPS that required more than just the player hopping around and thinking only of themselves like most other FPS's - Daikatana required you to also help your sidekicks survive the ordeal alongside you. This new play mechanic threw many people off the game because it was too difficult. But playing Daikatana again today, this is one fast and furious FPS...still.
I found that on Romero's own site.
Wow. Just.... wow.
slowbeef posted:
You know, I was playing a first person shooter last night and I was actually annoyed because I couldn't unstick from the ladder. And I was even complaining about the excessive splash damage from explosions.
Then, you know, I saw this video and realized that was actually a really good game. Thanks, John!
Captain Picard posted:
It was faint but did I hear the e1m1 doom music turned into organ music in the crematorium?
(yes)
Maxwell Adams posted:
There's something missing here... something that makes the N64 version of Daikatana undeniably superior to the PC version.
This.
vvv this video does have sound, it's just extremely quiet because I recorded it wrong. The whole thing has background 'music', then a BAM sound near the end.
Evil Tim posted:
You're missing the extra part where instead of clapping his hands together after saying 'in blood' Superfly punches a hole in the wall with his fist.
Linguica posted:
Oh yeah and...
the only good thing to come out of Daikatana
BrainWeasel posted:
I love how firing the rocket launcher takes two rocket ammo. What the hell is the point of that? Did they have to make every non-suicidal weapon lie to the player about how many shots you get?
Of course they did, how better to break your spirit. Thanks John.
slowbeef posted:
I... fail to understand Mishima. He seems like he's got a good gig going with the Soylent Green fast food thing. Why's he need the Daikatana?
Critical posted:
Wait, wait, motherfucking wait.
So the whole object of the game is to acquire and power up the big motherfucking sword.
But the big motherfucking sword steals your motherfucking experience when you use it?
Motherfucker.
I salute you both. I would have ripped out the disc, snapped it in half, urinated on it, and tossed it out my window.
Linguica posted:
Did anyone else notice Superfly's hilariously racist about-face in the outro video?
Let's go get the daikatana!
Fuck that, let's get the hell out of here.
JohnCarmack posted:
I can field these.kjetting posted:
Questions for John:
1.Everyone knows that the name "Daikatana" is from a D&D campaign that you DMed at id software, but how much else of the game originated from that session?
2.Why are the teleports in this game swastika shaped?
3.What's your favourite color?
4.You have received a lot of mockery for naming your token black character "Superfly Johnson". Why did you go for that name instead of something more neutral like "Awesome Penis"?
1. John is an idiot when it comes to naming games. I let him get away with Wolfenstein, but he originally wanted to call DOOM: Hellhunter 5000.
2. John is obsessed with Nazis. I don't know why. I've seen him masturbate to pictures of Indiana Jones.
3. Surprisingly, I think it's lavender.
4. I remember when he tried to get a black character into DOOM named Rib-Lovin' Leroy. It was a nightmare.
Good job on Daikatana, asshole!!!
Karach posted:
As a classicist-in-training I am interested to see what John Romero thinks life in Ancient Greece was like. I suppose Socrates is a level boss or something.
DK posted:
In my strange fantasy world, Romero was like this all along. Rather than experiencing some kind of fatal decline with Daikatana, he was fundamentally broken all throughout the creation of Doom and Quake, requiring special handlers to calm him down, stalking the halls at night desperately trying to make the shotgun a full auto weapon until tackled, sedated, and temporarily soothed by having his head shoved into the swollen cleavage of a level designer. Honestly, I think of him and I think of the robot nerd from "Grandma's Boy."
Honestly, if he's this inept, it makes me wonder if Doom and Quake were successful despite and not because of him. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the dynamics to know how much Carmack and the others acted to limit him, but without their restraints he's obviously a disaster. In the end, that article almost makes the Daikatana story a sad one - he left id for a dream and this game is the shit-smeared abortion of it he was left holding years later. If he wasn't so obnoxious, it might be possible to be sympathetic.
Press on, press on, through the tragedy of John.
JohnCarmack posted:
This guy knows what he's talking about.
Another fun fact- you know that barrel at the beginning of Doom E1M1? John wanted it to yell out "You blew my balls!" when it exploded. And only that barrel.
What a fuckup.
Hammer Floyd posted:
How about that. I thought Vaporware just meant a product that was hyped and everything but then never was released.
And for those of you who didn't know anything about Daikatana or just want a damn good read:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000619...tana/
That's the story.
ChuckMaster posted:
Thanks a bunch for the painful, painful labor in bringing this game to us. The funniest thing is that no mater how bad the game is, Romero still thinks it's good. At least George Clooney said after Batman and Robin "I think we might have killed the franchise."
I used to work in the industry, and one of our publishers met John Romero. His reply to "design is law" was "Of course you think that way, because you guys don't have any programmers!"
Here's a sick thought: One of the artists for Sanitarium left Dreamforge to work on Diakatana at Ion Storm. He was so proud to leave Dreamforge for a "Real" company, and even left the Ion Storm logo on his PC when he left.
Then he got so pissed off when his old team mates bashed the game left and right.
Cronican posted:
Holy shit. I just watched all of these videos today, I only clicked on it because it was rated 'crap'.
I feel for you two. I really do.
That said, does John ever explain why the world ends when the swords touch? It sounds like he's getting his ideas from Dr. Emmett Brown. Also, this latest plot 'twist' reminds me of turtles in time, I was expecting to hear 'Prehistoric turtle-saurus' right after. It seems to me that John has no problems ripping stories from his favorite things and smashing them all together.
I suppose this isn't a surprise though.
Edit: List of ripped off titles: Soylent green, quake, back to the future, turtles in time, six million dollar man. There are likely hundreds more. Oh wait, I forgot the absolute rape of the color green, John found a way to rape a color.
Cronican posted:
Look what the game just asked me when I clicked quit:
Fuck you John.
Frankomatic posted:
I was just dinking around to make sure this thing works right and to try to set up my mouse sensitivity to the point that playing on a touchpad isn't going to be a total liability (grr, laptop), and I came up with a question. Does any weapon in this set not explode you into a pile of gibs? Even bouncing ion blaster shots off the wall into my face turned me into a pile of nothing.
Veotax posted:
Don't rely too much on me, I've just started a new job and with me being a limey getting a time good for all of us might be a little hard. I'll join in if we can find a good time (probably a Saturday night for me).
Any way, I find the "Bonus Material" section for Diakatana oddly hilarious in GameTap.
It's like the guy who wrote it is trying to yell "This game fucking sucks! Go play Deus Ex instead!".
GUI posted:
I decided to play Daikatana on GameTap.
I reached part 2 of level 1 then I was killed by a small army of frogs, flies, and an invincible turret.
An
invincible
turret.
What. the. fuck.
Thank you, John.
Flare Elevar posted:
Over the past three days, I've been watching these videos against every last thread of sense I have. And I think I have this game figured out. I had to dwell on it for a bit, but the answer came to me in a sudden flash of green brilliance.
Daikatana is a ROMhack.
Think about it. Weapons that hurt you more than the enemy, the ones that don't just suck ass or have other drawbacks to balance them out. The game is "made for experts" and if you don't like it you're not good at it. The level design reeks of unprofessionalism, the monsters are dull, uninspired, and downright unfair. The creator of the game has an inflated ego, despite all the hatred directed at him. It just fits way too well.
I have voted 1, as instructed. May the rating of this thread dive lower and lower into the depths of green-ness.
Automatomaton posted:
It's okay, I just got my hands on a copy of the game. Hey Proteus, think about that for a minute! People are actually paying to play this game! People. Paying. For Daikatana. All because of this LP! You've probably doubled the sales numbers for Daikatana.
I would say you deserve some sort of punishment, but I think LPing Daikatana is punishment enough.
ChuckMaster posted:
I just watched the Vault and holy every living Ike.
You die as soon as you start.
Bugs.
Jumping puzzles.
Uninspired boss.
There is not a redeeming feature in this game. I am now convinced that anyone who liked this game is a drooling retarded chimp trying to shove bananas in his ass.
I talked with one of the Ion Stormers who worked on Anarchronox before the release. He said that Diakatana is a gangrenous limb that the company needed to hack off. God was he right.
GetWellGamers posted:
When I played Daikatana for the first and only time, it was in the "Rental cabinet" at Blizzard, where you could check out a game and play it if you wanted. When I brought it to the guy who handled the list, he asked "....You're really gonna play that?"
"Uh, yeah?"
"Wow, I never thought anyone would actually take it. The guy that gave it to us donated it as a joke."
I think everyone in the Game Industry should play Daikatana at least once. You need to know just how bad design can be, a looming spectre in the back of your mind to flee from if you start seeing similarities in your own work...
ChuckMaster posted:
I think the other part is that you just hate Suspicious. No friend would force someone to play a game that kills you for no reason.
What next? Are you going to make him sit through the Bratz movie? Or play Battle Cruiser? Or nail spikes into his sinuses?
Or dig up a pre-release of Daikatana and make him play it:
It's like bad Battletech fan art!
LordMune posted:
For a descendant of the original swordsmith and the master of a dojo, Hiro is pretty fucking terrible at handling the Daikatana, what with having to pause for a while between each three-swing "combo" ().
Proteus4994 posted:
slowbeef posted:
Aw yeah.
I'm imagining Romero drunk at a bar, explaining to some girl, "His name is Hiro - which in Japanese is pronounced Hee and Ro. See? It's a throwback to the fact that he's a hero."
"Interesting. What's your name again?"
"John. John Carmack, nice to meet you."
So I made his last name Miyamoto in a tribute to Shigeru Miyamoto, famous Nintendo game designer.
....you don't say...
Yes ma'am, is this guy bothering you?
I hate you so fucking much, Romero.
Linguica posted:
Here's some trivia, the "(tm)" in that quote is a direct reference to the Old Man Murray update where they made fun of Romero for trademarking the term "Suck it Down". Old Man Murray did an update on it because I had looked up ION Storm stuff in the USPTO search database and found it there. I didn't know what the hell to do with that information so I sent it to them.
LordMune posted:
The weapons really stand out as utterly retarded.
BULLETS AND ROCKETS. BEING FIRED AT A DECENT RATE. MAYBE, MAYBE SOME OTHER KIND OF PROJECTILE, IF YOU'RE FEELING EXPERIMENTAL. HOW HARD CAN IT BE, JOHN?!
Apparently too hard for the Romero. Fucking Ion Blaster and Shock Spheres and C4 guns. They are actually worse to use than might be apparent from the videos.
Fuck this game.
Maxwell Adams posted:
Its pretty interesting to break down this game and figure out the mental process that created it.
First of all, the daikatana itself. I like the idea of a sword that travels through time so that the hero and villain both hold the same weapon, and if the blades clash, the universe will come to an end. This idea is pretty well formulated, so it's safe to assume that it didn't come from John Romero's head. It came from those D&D sessions. I'm sure John contributed, but the nature of his contribution was just, "I want this frickin sword that TRAVELS THROUGH TIME". The rest wasripped offinspired by Timecop.
Then there's The Green. People complained about Quake being too brown, so John made his game green instead. If only people were more articulate while complaining about Quake, and said, "Everything in this game is the same damn color (and that color happens to be brown)". Switching colors from brown to green doesn't get rid of the problem. Everything is still the same color. Nice job going fucking overboard with it, though.
Then there's the enemies. John wanted a frantic, exciting FPS experience. In order to make things more difficult, he made the enemies into small, moving targets. This is actually a good idea. Heck, Half-Life pulled this off when they introduced headcrabs. It was awesome. But, where Half-Life forced you to fear and respect the lowly headcrab, John makes you fight shit that gets right in front of you and annoys you until killed.
The weapons... enough has been said already.
Finally, you've got John's sense of humor. Racial stereotypes, human hamburgers, and force fields powered by brains.
Thanks John.
Critical posted:
By the time this game is over, I imagine Proteus sitting at home, cutting himself with a cheaply made Highlander knockoff katana waiting for sparklies to come out and muttering about experience.
Sindai posted:
Haha I seriously can't believe they give you an explosive AoE melee weapon.
I think Hiro's "Damn...that was stupid...." has to be some kind of meta self-commentary on that fact.
ChuckMaster posted:
How's this for a complementary one?
WHERE'S MY MONEY, JOHN?
MrBims posted:
Those aren't Centurions, they're Hoplites. Romero actually got something at least semi-realistic for once!
ChuckMaster posted:
Deborah: Hero, you looked really shook up!
Hero: Yeah, I saw a ghost.
Deborah: A ghost?
Hero: Yeah.
Deborah: Did it have six heads, horns, and shot fire at its eyes at you?
Hero: No
Deborah: Was it insubstantial and only vulnerable when it attacked you with a scythe while screaming, as in the better game Blood?
Hero: No.
Deborah: Did it drain your life like the DnD game this plot was lifted from?
Hero: No.
Deborah: Ok, so what DID it do?
Hero: It helped me out a bit.
Deborah:HELPED you?
Hero: Yeah.
Deborah: Ok, let me get this straight. We're fighting animated skeletons, winged Harpies, gigantic god damned spiders, we have death traps every where, half our weapons tend to us accidentally, and we're trapped in time, and you're afraid of...a ghost that helps you?
Hero. Yeah.
Deborah: Are you thoroughly retarded?
Hero: Hey, what can I say? I'm the creation of John Romero. The best thing I have going for me is that I'm not a racial stereotype.
Deborah: Thanks John.
Psion posted:
I have to say Proteus, Suspicious landed a perfect burn on you with that college football line during the Vault playthrough. I laughed so much.
PS: Mikikikiko, you retard: It's in the Parthenon, ON the Athenian Acropolis. The Parthenon is a building, you don't stand on it unless you are retarde---oh.
Carry on.
Malachi Constant posted:
I was under the impression that they could choose their character before the game started.
Also, Suspicious, keep it up. You're a lot funnier in your own videos (like the Hexen and single player Daikatana), but it's fun watching you try to herd Proteus into actually advancing the game rather than run around swinging his sword at anything that moves. You're like a weary war verteran trying to keep a retarted kid out of danger on the battlefield (no offense Proteus, I love your commentary).
It's amazing to me that Suspicious went to the trouble of finding secrets that don't seem to be documented anywhere on the net. You probably know this game better than anyone else out there.
Dr. Destructo posted:
Jesus, the enemy placements and combinations don't make any fucking sense!
Hoplites! Persians! Satyrs! Fucking Skeletons! And they're all working together for some unexplained reason.
Thanks, John.
kissekatt posted:
It's like he is the John Carmack of this LP, and Proteus is the John Romero.
Evil Tim posted:
John Romero Weapons Design System™
1. Take any normal weapon designed by normal bitches who aren't expert enough to be expert.
2. Roll a six-sided dice and note the number.
3. Beat up the nearest nerd for a 10-sided dice because you, an assrammer who named your game after a weapon from a D&D campaign, are far too rockin' and metal to own such a nerdy thing. Roll the noted number of times on the following table of non-bitch expertness.
1 - Add 'damages friendly / self'
2 - Weapon fires in impossible to control bursts and has no fire modes
3 - Weapon is stupidly inaccurate
4 - Ridiculous splash damage
5 - Weapon applies all damage to the player and doesn't fire under certain conditions
6 - Projectiles stick using some diseased collision check system
7 - Weapon takes up most of the screen
8 - Projectiles bounce in a manner not even remotely resembling physics
9 - Weapon boomerangs to allow you two chances to TK your allies instead of one
10 - Fuck you
4. Congratulations. You have another totally awesome and innovative weapon that is expert and not for bitches.
Diagnosed posted:
Suspicious is right on the pronunciation of gibs with the soft g, as it comes from the word giblets and thus shares the g pronunciation. Sorry proteus.
Also, what the hell is supposed to happen at the end of that lair of Medusa video with the cut scene? Does Superfly just unstone or does he break out because he's such a tough jive-talkin' black badass, as John seems to have envisioned?
Honestly, Superfly Johnson is a name straight out of a blaxploitation movie. I'm surprised he doesn't walk around with an afro and a revolver, rhyming and pimping.
Karach posted:
Amusingly, John spells 'aegis' in lower-case Greek script in the Acropolis 3 video, which was a medieval innovation - Greeks at the time would have written only in capitals. Furthermore, he uses the intermediate sigma form ( σ ) when he really should use the final sigma form ( ς ). While this is a lesser flaw than many others in the game, I feel that it is still to John's lasting discredit.
Frankomatic posted:
Well, since we're through Episode two now, I suppose I can post this for those that were disappointed with the Eye of Zeus. Note how in the animation an eye opens facing you? Well...
You get a surprise if it has nothing else to focus on when fired.
JohnCarmack posted:
Some of John's ideas at id, from an e-mail or two.
Weapon ideas for Wolfenstein:
"The Swastika Gun" - Fires bladed swastikas at Nazis. Can bounce off walls more than 3 times. Able to hurt the player.
"Portable Oven" - And I quote, "Something invented by Hitler to burn Jews remotely. Can be clamped on a Nazi's face and used for melee attacks, or thrown to explode." Able to hurt the player.
"Meat gun" - Fires raw steak at Nazis so dogs will go after them. Used in the corner, it can backfire on the player. So... Able to hurt the player.
"Whip" - Again, I quote: "Indy used it against Nazis so we have to." Able to hurt the player.
"Two-Way Gun" - Has a barrels pointing in opposite directions. Not sideways, mind you - one is pointed forward and the other back. Designed to hurt the player.
Weapon ideas for DOOM:
"Double-Bladed Chainsaw" - See Two-Way gun. Same idea. Amazingly this weapon hurts the player by the fact that it is equipped.
"DOOM Sword" - Melee weapons that cause a shockwave to - get this - fire behind the player and bounces off a wall. Guess what it can do. Yep. Hurt the player.
"Miyamoto Mushroom" - Causes the player to double in size. He couldn't get that to work though.
Proteus4994 posted:
How in the fuck did you even do that?JohnCarmack posted:
Some of John's ideas at id, fr-
CARMACK'S LIES! CARMACK'S INSIDIOUS HATEFUL SPITEFUL VINDICTIVE LIES! HE IS AN EVIL MAN AND I SWEAR ON MY SOUL THAT I WILL HUNT HIM DOWN AND KILL HIM ONE DAY!
Never mind.
Go away.
During our recording today, we had to wait around for Wugga's incompetent ass to get the game to work, so Suspicious put together a little video of what I look like to him. There's no sound, but it doesn't matter. A picture speaks a thousand words.
God damn it, shut the fuck up.
So anyway, here's the link to the video. It'll go in the OP.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...652566320138478
Ugh.
Proteus4994 posted:
Alright, coming up next is the fir-
I'm not entirely sure that's such a great idea.
OK
Wow, that's actually pretty informative.
Jesus, that's almost admirable.
Plague Village
John......I......wow. I guess I've underestimated you. You CAN be professional!
slowbeef posted:
People tend to use a lot of hyperbole in this sub-forum, but that is seriously one of the greatest video updates I've ever seen. It wasn't even really funny - it was just sublime and... wow.
Perfect.
(part 2 coming later)