Part 7: Get on the Treason Train! Choo CHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Get on the Treason Train! Choo CHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!Welcome back! Last time we met a turboracist king who sent us on a really cool diplomatic mission to go treat with the rebels who literally murdered our father in front of us. Then we got ambushed by a bunch of moronic Satanists who declared there would be no peace because their god demanded it, murdered the real diplomat and then got turned into blood splatters by an angry elephant and some randos she met.
Now, let's see what exactly our vast diplomatic skills were supposed to accomplish?
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This guard stops us at the door and tells us there's plague quarantine. Helg is upset with bad manners and Hamlin is annoyed we didn't just... climb over the walls of a fucking rebel city. The guards arbitrarily send the caravan back while we are allowed in and Hamlin whines about being called our servant.
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Let's take a look at this missive, shall we?
From the Genius Mind of King Velianrick posted:
Most Honorable Lords, Ladies, and Rebels Against the Crown of Isilmerald.
I, King Velianrick, extend my open hand in a gesture of peace between our cities. That our people may no longer suffer, our property no longer burn, and that our treasuries may be put to better purposed than the funding of violence and mayhem. I have sent my diplomat Rauche to treat with thee, along with the newly titled Lady Inta Rume. The young lady is the progeny of the late Lord Espen. I trust she will live up to Lord Espen's reputation for honesty and fair dealing. Please accept their counsel as the voice of the crown.
I present the following terms in hope of a lasting and fruitful peace:
-Deron-Guld will disarm and demobilize all troops
-fulfillment of all outstanding taxes withheld from the crown during the hostilities
-a new levy of 20% on Deron-Guld's gross income from all sources (this is in addition to previously enforced taxation)
-75% of all raw ore shall be shipped to the capital for disposition by the crown
-from the nobles of the War Council - immediate surrender of one-half of all land holdings to the crown, said lands to be selected personally by me, or by a steward appointed to this task.
These items are none of them negotiable, subject to alteration, or negation.
In other words, get fucked Deron-Guld!
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I immediately go shopping.
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Where Isilmerald has war golems, Deron-Guld has a bunch of giants. I think the solid steel robots are probably better but what do I know?
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With these scrolls for Bjalla there's a good chance we never need Siracca again!
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Sadly for the LP, I think they patched this quest.
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I like how she's not in any way mad her hometown launched the assault that murdered her sister.
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TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
: Despite you being the one trying to make up with Beline, I actually need to put in real effort to let me have the conch shell that's the only thing standing between Beline and eternal torment.
: Good thing persuasion is the only useful skill in its class!
I'm sorry, everyone. I reloaded this a bunch of times, and every time I passed the persuasion check. This is not an automatic reply. If you fail the check, Winona basically says "but it's really pretty and I want to keep it" and you can never ask her again, meaning that she deliberately consigns her sister to an eternity of torment wandering the Espen estate. It's hilarious and I'm mad I can't show it off. Oh well.
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We can make unfunny antivax jokes.
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Anyway, we need to tell the guards that we're here with the message and we go into full cutscene mode.
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Fun fact: there is a known issue with massive loading times. The devs' actual advice is "make sure you install the game on an SSD."
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This man is about to completely confuse the hell out of me and it's not my fault.
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I'm sorry, what the fuck are you doing here? I know he's a high ranking rebel, but we'll get to this.
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Why is Aldnar in command of anything? Keep this question in mind.
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The game assumes you didn't read the terms because you're not actually allowed to answer honestly without talking about the ambush.
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Lady Thora: Well, things have gotten a little out of hand...
Lady Solveig: Like Lord Aldnar, I am most curious to know how you came by your noble title. I had never heard your name before today, Lady Inta Rume.
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As far as I can tell nothing you say here really matters.
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Why are they keeping Aldnar around? He has no title because both his father and the king revoked it. He has no lands. He has no army. His only successful military operation was a tactical success in that he destroyed Lord Espen's estate, but a complete strategic failure because he tarnished his reputation as a patricide, he killed a bunch of persuadable nobles who were debating going over to the rebellion, and he presumably got a decent amount of men killed storming the walls.
Lord Talin: Easy there, Lord Aldnar. You may continue your spat when the council's business is finished.
What exactly does he contribute to the council? When he defected Lord Espen was alive, so presumably he didn't bring in fighting men. It's not really clear if he's a veteran of the Rillow war or not, because as far as I know the Rillow war is only mentioned briefly in the manual and the manual... goes places.
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At this point Lord Frelsi has left the room with the missive, which literally just says "give me all your shit or die, there's no negotiation allowed".
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Lady Thora: Spoken like a true diplomat.
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(Bargain and Persuasion)
We can, uh, infer this. It doesn't really matter. Maybe I should have taken the latter option?
Lady Cythine: That'll be the day!
Lady Solveig: Strict, she says, more like extortionate.
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I should have taken the last option but the lure of using persuasion skills got me.
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Ok, now we're lying and kinda trying to change the terms here.
Lord Gaenor: That all *sounds* good. I wonder if we could see it in writing.
Lord Zander: Ugh. I already know what promises are worth.
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So why didn't it to the class and have them interrogate us instead?
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Lord Gaenor: Yes, let's have it, Lord Frelsi.
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Lord Talin: No!
Lord Gaenor: That is not going to happen while I sit on this council.
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Well, no, what I meant was, your units will be disbanded and the men subsumed into the royal army. We even were told this from the beginning of the game!
The First Update posted:
: Whatever the loyalties of, er, the young lord of House Espen, the southern nobles have many legitimate complaints: heavy, some say ruinous, taxation; delayed shipments thanks to the crown's regimen of inspections and checkpoints; the king's insistence that Deron-Guld's military, even the town watch, must be trained in the north. It's quite a lot.
I assume we're not just going to leave all the men lying around, especially as there was a Rillow War mentioned in the manual and never mentioned in the game again.
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...shit.
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Ok, when we come back with the Royal Army I'm having them make you clean all the horseshit.
Lady Solveig: As if the beggary to which we've been reduced is not enough.
Well you have the finances to raise an entire ass army to rebel against the king, so I'm not exactly sympathetic.
Lord Talin: He may as well try and milk a stone.
The thread was discussing how the King is trying to make it seem like diplomacy broke down, but the game told us earlier that rebel forces made it all the way to the outskirts of the royal capital! He doesn't need this to justify mobilizing the royal army and crushing the rebellion. He does NOT need to convince the unaligned nobles, because Aldnar just murdered a whole bunch to satisfy a petty vendetta and now the rebellion can't be trusted. Instead of say, removing Aldnar from command and putting him on trial to win public opinion, they're doing... whatever the hell this is.
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I don't even understand the point of this. Shipping overland is expensive at medieval technology, and I don't think there's a river between Deron-Guld and Isilmerald.
Looking it up there's not, you have to march to a lake.
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The game at least makes it clear that the terms are deliberately provocative and insulting.
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I mean, you guys also dragged a bunch of people into a civil war against the king, what did you expect?
Lord Gaenor: Has Velianrick gone mad? That is the only answer that makes sense to me.
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Can we go home now?
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I'm not sure if you get around this by telling them Rauche was killed or that the terms really are shit.
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Uh, no, we explicitly opened with "kneel before the king or... you DIE!"
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Again, why are you here? You have single-handedly fucked over the entire cause of Deron-Guld with the murder of your own father and all those potentially supportive nobles.
Lord Gaenor: Lord Aldnar is right. This is a travesty and I will not partake of it!
Do the others respect him? Why? Blythe called him out as a hot-tempered idiot, and that is absolutely NOT the person you want commanding your forces because they can be provoked into doing something stupid. As we saw.
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Not sure why he gets a portrait. Sidequest maybe?
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When the royal army sacks the city you will be spared.
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I... I don't know why you think this. Is it because you're stupid? That's not a joke by the way, half the nobles in the game have been portrayed as useless buffoons. The king literally wrote a letter saying "give me everything you possess and I will not negotiate on this matter".
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I can't blame Zander here because Frelsi didn't read THAT part. As it stands we have a letter from the king stating that the terms cannot be changed by anyone.
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The game almost wants to comment on the uselessness of the nobility but decides against it.
Lord Talin: Whatever the council's feelings on these matters, no decisions may be made without every member's participation.
Is that why Aldnar hasn't been booted out? Everyone trusts the man who looks like an untrustworthy angry criminal who also used your soldiers to murder his own father and squander the rebellion's support?
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The game is trying to do something with Frelsi but doesn't have the writing chops to pull it off.
The Manual, on Lord Frelsi posted:
Lord Frelsi is a highly ranked nobleman from a long line of aristocracy, and the current governor of the rebel city of Deron-Guld. Long a fixture of the royal court at Isilbright, Frelsi was a trusted advisor to the king and past master at navigating the capitals intrigues. He now acts as the de-facto leader of the rebels War Council, though technically all who sit at that table are equals.
Frelsi was also a long-time confidant of Lord Espen, and the two remained friends right up until Espens assassination, despite Frelsi taking up with the Deron-Guld rebels against the crown.
Despite his current opposition to the king, the lord has always had a reputation for forthrightness and fair dealing, a signal accomplishment for anyone who must, as a matter of course, live his life surrounded by guile and backbiting.
Frelsi desires a peaceful resolution to the strife between cities, but whether this is possible remains to be seen.
The game is trying to make Lord Frelsi seem like a highly competent man who started the rebellion over legitimate grievances and never wanted it to come to blows. The problem is that none of this writing makes sense. He's supposed to be trustworthy because he's an old friend of our father's, but none of that is mentioned! The conspirators in the beginning don't mention him at all, even though you'd think someone would say something like "Your old friend Lord Frelsi is a trustworthy man, why would he do this"?
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Remember, Frelsi doesn't know about the Treason Meeting.
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Wait, what? How did this happen?
The Very First Update posted:
If Lord Espen declared for the king, why was this happening in his house? Now, we can guess what happened - the weird Satan cult guys who killed Rauche and converted Aldnar intervened here and ambushed the messenger because they want the war to continue.
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Wait, hold up. Aldnar organized a unit of conscripts into a force capable of marching from Deron-Guld to the Espen Estate - which is very close to the capital - without being detected by royal scouts, organized these men who had not fought together into a cohesive army that outnumbered the bodyguard forces of at least five powerful nobles, and managed to storm a defended castle with them?
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We don't have the option to tell Frelsi that he was still debating going over to the rebels at the meeting in the beginning OR about the people who ambushed Rauche.
We don't have a full picture, Frelsi doesn't have a full picture, and at this point the king's kind of hung us out to dry. The game wants us to believe Frelsi's trustworthy because he's an old friend of our father's - and I'll give it to you straight, Frelsi is on the level. None of this Satan cult shit is any of Frelsi's doing.
Of course, we can't tell Frelsi that Aldnar is into Satan garbage even though he was bragging about it like an idiot to his father before killing him.
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...and this was OK? Wouldn't all of these troops answer to the actual lords they swore oaths to? If Frelsi was a longtime advisor to King Velianrick, wouldn't he have fought in the Rillow War? Did Aldnar provide his own contingent of troops? Where did they come from? Why didn't they discipline Aldnar for misusing their troops? What is Aldnar bringing to this War Council aside from his own sword and poor impulse control? Are there other Satanists on the war council? Why can't we tell Frelsi that Aldnar basically bragged about worshipping Satan? Deron-Guld has a temple of Alnarius, they're not ALL Satanists.
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Unfortunately, we're railroaded into being a fucking idiot. Now, admittedly, we have little leverage, but we are here as an emissary of the King, who has entire armies and golems mobilizing to crush the rebellion.
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Yes, and? I get it, but there's another message too. You killed Lord Espen, but you didn't destroy his house. Second, Espen acknowledged us as his legitimate heir in his last will. We can of course tell Frelsi none of this, presumably because we're a scullery maid and all the snooty nobles are mad that we used to be a commoner.
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You don't say. We get the option to call them out as traitors, and Henry VIII would have attaindered all of these dumbasses by now.
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No shit! The king has shown that he's willing to promote or demote nobles.
With Aldnar's help, the rebellion has shown they're willing to MURDER nobles.
Guess which is worse?
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This doesn't necessarily mean throwing people into the meatgrinder as my main man Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus would have you know, but considering context it does. In this context... why? Throwing people into the meatgrinder is both a sure way to destroy your own morale and lose support for the cause. Is the king really that bad that people are going to be willing to die in droves to topple him? You certainly don't seem to have popular support as you're relying heavily on conscription.
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In other words we can just... go the hell home. The rebellion is fucked. We delivered the terms. They have no fighting men and Aldnar proved the rebels are perfectly willing to just murder nobility.
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Earlier in the game posted:
: How can you not have heard? Have you been living at the bottom of the sea? Deron-Guld declared war on Isilbright a few days back, and has already gained a foothold in the south of the kingdom. Militarily, it was quite the feat!
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Jesus Christ! So a bunch of the townsfolk resent being dragged into this war, the rebel leader admits he has no resources left to fight, they're low on food, they can't produce iron, they're all dying of plague...
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Wait, so you're the commander of the armies? Why didn't you punish Aldnar? Why does no one seem to care that he went rogue? Does he have political support? The Council seemed to barely tolerate him and considered him a hotheaded dumbass.
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What about all those men on the streets?
Seriously, this rebellion's fucked.
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Good! That's where we want you! Surrender!
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NO! We don't want you to be able to continue the war!
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Why not? We've got you by the nuts! I get our character isn't supposed to be a cutthroat diplomat, but this is literally a case of when your enemy is self-destructing don't do anything to stop it.
Incidentally, if we tell him no, he just says this.
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TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
: Do you have word from the king?
: Yup, here's a letter.
: Cool imma read it in this corner you all talk shit.
: You're not even a real noble!
: Maybe the patricidal traitor could shut the fuck up?
:
I'm not owned!
: Shut up Aldnar, the adults are talking. Why is the king sending diplomats?
: You can either give up now or watch as the king rolls in and hangs your asses.
: Uh...
: Oh shit.
: Well how'd you come by your noble title? I've never heard of you.
: Yea! Yea you tell that biatch!
: Well, I'm Lord Espen's daughter by Clea Wellgrave, and while Aldnar is older than me he murdered his own father so here I am!
: I'm mad! I will threaten the royal emissary because I'm an incompetent fuckstick!
: Woah buddy calm down.
: The king's here in good faith, right?
: The king has taken into account your wealth and the relative disparity in our armies, yes. Kneel or die.
: Waaaah! What do we get out of this?
: Uh... the king takes your shit and someday, maybe, he will lower your taxes.
: Well the king basically wants to take all our shit and make an example of us.
: BAAAAAAAW!
: Man, FUCK the king and FUCK this Inta Rume skanky ho!
: Let's think about this. Lady Inta Rume, can you come with me?
: I'm sorry everyone was a dick to you because you basically told them their options were to give all their shit to the king or die.
: Thank you. No one really wanted to hear it!
: I apologize. Especially for Aldnar, the war has us all on edge.
: Aldnar fucking sucks! Should I mention he murdered his own father before my eyes or all that shit he said about Satan? Nah.
: Yea, enough about Aldnar. I was a friend of your father. He was a good man who was on the wrong side. You showing up under his banner, you know what that says?
: Uh...no.
: Well, I sent him a messenger and he seemed willing to listen, but then we found the messenger decapitated and his head put on a scarecrow. Then Lord Espen declared for the king. I still wanted to talk to him, but then Aldnar suddenly grabbed a bunch of conscripts and attacked and we somehow didn't figure out our sworn troops who took orders from us are missing.
: That seems really out of character. Also fuck I can't say I was there when he was having a meeting to decide whether to go over to the rebels shit why not?
: I know it was, I wanted to talk to him about it, but then Aldnar.
: How the HELL was Aldnar able to raise an entire army without you noticing?
: Uh...something something disorganization? He just kinda did it, and then we were like "you can stay on the War Council after murdering your own father and alienating a bunch of potential allies, YOLO!!!!"
: Are you going to do something about it? Fuck! Why can't I say anything but uh yea whatever nothing to do with me he deeed!
: True, but also the King sent you here to insult us and remind us that he can take away our noble titles at any time. Lord Espen is dead but the King's resurrected his house. There will be no peace, because the king sent us a list of mean poopy demands!
: Didn't you guys kill Lord Espen? The Record Keeper described that as an attack on the crown. What the fuck did you think would happen? You fuckers had this coming for murdering my father.
: Well, someone will discipline Aldnar sometime, but uh, this offer is bad diplomacy.
: Well, what are we going to do?
: I'll be honest with you: this rebellion is totally fucked! Morale is low, we don't have enough men or food to fight, the iron mines are sabotaged so we don't have any weapons, and without any of this we can't continue this war. Naturally, to get us to a state where we can continue the war, I need you to help me.
: Are you fucking nuts? I'm an emissary of the king! I owe my title to him! This is treason!
: Meh, whatever, you will eventually say yes because it continues the plot.
None of this makes sense. Frelsi basically tipped his hand and showed he had nothing. Instead of going "alright, without royal assistance this city is going to die and you're losing support" Frelsi refuses to surrender. The game decides suddenly we want to help Frelsi because... why, exactly? Even if we despised the king this is not a winning hand. The rebellion isn't standing up on behalf of the common folk, the rebellion is a bunch of rich nobles mad that they have to pay taxes to that poopy ol' King. Shit, the king promised us we could keep any lands we conquered, if we act quickly enough we might be able to take out a loan to hire mercs and just march into Deron-Guild, making us king of the iron mines. I get what the game is trying to do, Frelsi is supposed to be a good man trapped in an awful situation not of his making, but his response to "your soldiers murdered my father" is "eh, whatever". It's fucking baffling!
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Why is Lord Espen "my master" instead of "my father"?
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I swallow what little remains of my pride and pledge us to continue the game.
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How? It's a fucking plague!
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TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
: I guess I gotta get through this game. What do you need me to do?
: Go talk to "a friend of mine" in the inn. No, I'm not going to describe him or any of that shit. Report back once you do that.
Might as well turn in the golden conch, but this whole time I begin to wonder. If we go to the king and tell him that possibly the rebels killed Rauche, but also that the Deron-Guld rebellion is on the brink of collapse, will the developers have thought of that in any conceivable way?
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Well, that's a lot better than we usually do. This choice doesn't matter as far as reward goes - you can be a real dick and get 1 gp, but the nicer you are the less GREED you get.
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This feels like it should be meaningful considering how she spent all her life yelling at Inta Rume, a trained swordsmen, to fetch and serve drinks, but whatever! It's a ton of XP!
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TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
: Wow! You did my tedious fetch quest for no reward! I will reduce your GREED for not being a dick to me! We are friends now! Bye!
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So what happens if we go see the king? Is he not going to let us in? Is he going to be mad and think we deserted? Are we going to get a big choice to help the king for one final push to end this rebellion forever?
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Nope! I don't know if this is a bug, but he literally gives the exact same speech he gave last update!
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Seriously! Even though that caravan with the horses and teamsters all went back to the capital with the news, apparently no one told the king and he's doing the same shit.
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The only difference is that we don't get kicked out of the palace immediately. Is this a bug? What a fucking joke!
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Dammit.
Next time: Memba Baldur's Gate?