The Let's Play Archive

Demon King Chronicle

by Einander

Part 24: Appendix 2: "That's deep stuff." "I haven't put that much thought into it."

"That's deep stuff." "I haven't put that much thought into it."
(Compiled thread posts)

Helen's Mysterious Castle

Einander posted:

Finally, for everyone in the thread... If niche Japanese RPGs with unconventional systems and surprisingly cool plots are your thing, you should all consider getting Helen's Mysterious Castle. It just came out this weekend! It's even more directly comparable to DKC if I drop the common threads to Rondo, since it's also fairly short, has a surprisingly endearing silent protagonist, was released on Playism a few years after the original Japanese release...

I really, really loved it, and I'll probably LP it eventually, but I've got a few games I'll probably get to first. So go get it! It's $2, but I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Glass Fragments

Valkama posted:

I for some reason did decide to total all the glass fragments you can get in chests in the game a while ago and it was 111. That's a nice 42.2% of all chests.

Early Starcaller

Valkama posted:

If you're interested in breaking the game a little bit there is a fun thing you can do with the Starcaller. You see the way the game works is once you defeat the hero it changes a variable in your save file that allows you to open up the door to the Starcaller. So if you play through the game without saving you can get the variable triggered then open up a save file near the beginning of the game and have the Starcaller unlocked. Now enjoy crushing everything in your path! (Disclaimer: you have to beat the final boss first so that requires two no save playthroughs)


Valkama posted:

Also for Camil's name, she actually is named after the Camellia flower in Japan. It's just an instance like Rudolf and Randolph where naming someone after something in Japanese involves taking characters from it's name. This can create whole new words and change names significantly to the point of it's very hard to figure out the origin without being told it. Oddly enough the Himari(Camil) wordplay isn't even the worst bit of wordplay in the game.

The unfortunate thing for English audiences is the connection between Camil and flowers is rather obvious while in Japanese it's subtle as hell.

Edit: She might be named after the Amaryllis as well. They both share characters from Camil's name and both could be the reoccurring plant.

Valkama posted:

(On a little note I'm not very good in Japanese myself I've just done way to much research on this game)
You're right about the Kanji however Himari's name is written in Katakana so you need Katakana characters.

For reference:
Camil = ヒマリ(Himari)
Camellia = カメリア(Kameria)
Amaryllis = アマリリス(Amaririsu)

The Camellia Katakana doesn't completely line up with Himari but the general consensuses on Japanese boards seems to be changing up the roman characters along with the Katakana. The reason though seems to be because the art work has depictions of what appear to be Camellia flowers. (Although you could also make an argument for the Amaryllis. I kind of like this theory because of the weapon found in the tower).

Valkama posted:

To expand a bit on naming in general I'll pull up the names of the heroes and such.
The real heroes
Flodnar=フロドナ(Hrodna)(Pronounced Furodona)

The story heros:
Ritzea=ツィーリア(Tsuiria)(The I in the middle is long when pronounced)

Also character Randolf=ルドルフ(Rudolf)

I figure most of you aren't very good with Japanese but there is a lot of wordplay going on here with how Harold messed with the names of his characters. First Harold changed Ares name to Roman characters, reversed them then put them back into Katakana. With Aeritz in Japanese he scrambled the characters with a minor change to make it sound more like a name. With Flodnar it looks like put it into roman characters, scrambled them, put it back to Katakana and then re-scrambled them. Honestly it's rather disappointing how they are translated because the word play in English is a lot less interesting.

As Einander said above, basically Flodnar never recognized that the hero was named after him but liked the hero enough to wish that Randolf would one day become great like the hero. So Randolf was named after him. I'm not sure the exact cultural meaning behind how naming works but I understand often they don't use the full name they instead take characters from the name.

Most English speakers however do not do this and instead if you want to say name someone after a character in the Bible like Adam, you just call your kid Adam. So it made sense to change it to Randolf. There are a few problems with this translation for example it makes Flodnar look dumber for not recognizing Randolf is Flodnar backwards. Another is a bit of meaning is lost when Randolf plays the role of the hero Randolf and has finally become the hero Flodnar wish for him to be.(Not a big deal it just looks a bit awkward) We also can't make jokes about Rudolf guiding us through dragon mountain with a big red nose.(I'm still convinced it's an intentional reference)

Summary of Events

Valkama posted:

Well Ares's friend Harold was on his death bed and decided to write a story. He didn't exactly know what to write about so Ares helped him out. Unfortunately Harold died before he could finish the story. Years later Camil is asked by Ares Will if she will finish the story for him/her. Camil in the end of the game creates the ending as we see in the final battle and even throws the book into the river as Ares wanted to do. There is still a bit of information only available in bonus content but that's the main idea.

Harold and the Final Battle:

Keldulas posted:

Man that final battle is really something. I do like that it didn't end up being revenge writing, but just fantasy indulgence. Harold didn't necessarily want to be evil or the villian, he just wanted to be able-bodied and capable of fighting in an epic battle. The simplicity of that is pretty poignant.

EagerSleeper posted:

Aaron Aaron has always been an interesting character to me in that he’s a character meant to be a bit like an audience surrogate. He’s really interested in what’s going on in the story, but his flaw is that he’s getting the wrong message from it than what was intended. Instead of the recognizing Aries was amazingly skilled with even a crappy longsword, he assumes the sword is magical.

I think it may be canon for Harold having written himself as the Demon King, because he saw Aries as a true hero, hence write a reason for her to go after him. I guess he wanted her heroic idealism to contrast against his own life issues, and for her to give him motivation for his all too brief life (not to mention that he was totally crushing on Aries pretty heavily).

Dr Pepper posted:

One thing interesting about this game is how darn hopeful it is.

You wouldn't think it at first glance, the entire game starts incredibly dreary. Ruins, everyone living in a cave, murder. Then the first thing you learn is the horrible tragedies of the people you're involved with.

Aaron Aaron helps with that impression because he's your first source of information about the Demon King Chronicle and he's completely wrong about it. You're constantly waiting for the menace to reveal itself that the optimism and hope for the future that the game gives as its ultimate message is an extra strong shock to the system.

The Blue And Red Books

Einander posted:

In addition to what Valkama wrote... Here, have a text wall, because the game did something clever again.

If you look back, you'll note that all the Demon King Chronicle chapters in the various rooms (or in Klepto Klepto's shop, after he steals them, or in the final battle) are blue. The personal stories of each character, the ones they send floating down the river at the end of each Story, are red. Camil's Demon King Chronicle, the one you use as a save point, is also red. (It's a little difficult to see, but look at the bottom in any of the screenshots where it's open. First chapter of the LP has one.) That's the story she's writing (or that's being written by her actions, because Camil is magic). Just like all the other characters, Camil has both a red story and a blue story--you just play through the red chapters instead of reading them.

The four chapters of Harold's Chronicle are "Tower," "Ocean," "Snow," and "Demon King" (as the books and last battle show). The four chapters of Camil's Chronicle are "Deep in the snowstorm," "A girl's wish," "The white beast," and "Toward the End of Stories" (as shown by checking it at her desk. Notably, these are the four chapters, no matter what order you unlock or complete the dungeons).

The final boss battle is the end of both stories. Camil ends Harold's Demon King Chronicle by staging the climactic battle between the Demon King Hades and the three heroes of the previous stories. At the same time, she's ending her own Chronicle by fulfilling Ares's wish. This is where the game pulls a switch-up: look at that last piece of art and the cleared game title screen. The book Camil sends down the river is blue. What happens to the red story, then?

Camil doesn't chuck her red story in the river like the rest. The resolution on that is in that art pack on Playism, in Camil's Epilogue art, "Intertwining Stories." She hands the red book off, along with a flower (a Camellia, or whichever flower she's named after in Japanese), to someone who's holding a blue book. Either she's handing her Chronicle to the person who found Harold's completed one, or she's handing it to a fan of Harold's incomplete one. Either way, it's passed along and joins its companion tome.

Heavy neutrino posted:

Adding to that, when you buy "the final battle as planned" from His Memory (Harold's?), Camil steps into the blue story -- Harold's story, outside of her own. That's why her name changes to Sera, the Rat Slayer becomes the Dragon Slayer, and the random Will Stone she found and had no clue about in the slightest becomes the fully fleshed-out Ritzea.

The Hero's Companions

Tallgeese posted:

Also... you didn't point out that Alma is on the name of Mole's sword. Mole is Millianis. He either named the sword after Alma, or Alma made it and put her name on it (thus also explaining who the weapon Amaryllis belonged to).

So you not only got to fight Story Zelphie, you got to fight The Mole too.

His Memory

Valkama posted:

I was never able to come to a solid conclusion as to who the "His" in his memory is referring to. There are a couple people I've thought of but none really have solid proof. Harold makes the most sense thematically, as his memory contains everything you need to have the true final battle. Zelphie makes a bit of sense because of the three doors at the ending. Another idea is that it belonged to Aeritz. He would have seen Zelphie's sadness, his heroism and his Starcaller at first hand. My only problem with this really is it doesn't make too much sense to assign such an important role to Aeritz.

The one I rather like is "His" being Ares. Ares's gender is never stated so it's possible. I mostly like this idea because of the little prompt you get before entering the mirror as Camil is the one assigned to fulfill Ares role in the story. The crystal's in his memory only apply to the heroes which Ares knew vary well and it's possible Aeritz told Ares about Zelphie or Ares just knew.

To each their own interpretation I guess.

Einander posted:

Aaron Aaron explicitly says "her" in reference to Sera, so I'm pretty sure Ares is female. I'd have to see the Japanese to see if that was gender-neutral originally, but considering that there was enough effort put in to ensure that Kumo's references to Ares were gender-neutral, I suspect that Ares is supposed to be female... Especially since Camil and Nana, the stand-ins for Ares and Sera in the two recreations of The Chronicle, are both female. So I'm very sure that Ares is out.

The "His" in "His Memory" being Zelphie doesn't explain Star Fall Magic (except insofar as it strengthens Aeritz), but it does actually explain at least half of The Final Battle as Planned--Aeritz and Zelphie also had a final battle that they never got to live out, and The Final Battle as Planned activates against The Hero. It's a singular "His" and Harold and Zelphie had nothing to do with one another, so Camil probably modified it to apply to the wishes of both Harold and Aeritz. Either way around is roughly plausible, and things line up better otherwise if "His" is Zelphie.

Plus, Zelphie is the shadow over very nearly the entire cast, the reason the three Chronicle holders and the Mole and Aeritz were there on the Island. Those characters are here to face their pasts, grow past them, and then return to The Continent, and all of them have a score to settle with Zelphie at that point. He's the real Final Battle, so the crystal referring to him originally makes total sense.

Harold is a strong number two, but I'm pretty sure it's Zelphie.

Valkama posted:

While Sera is female it's always possible Harold just wrote Sera to be different gender than Ares. While it is certainly heavily implied to be female Ares's gender is specifically never stated. I do think it works better if Ares is female which is why I've never been able to come to a full conclusion.

However... Based on what you said the Zelphie theory has become a lot more appealing to me.

Torokasi posted:

It's possible that Zelphie is related to the mirror somehow, but I just can't make myself see it as anything other than Harold's since the known thief didn't bring the mirror to the island and Aaron Aaron's "habit" of selling things that used to belong to others on the island narrow it down to basically only Harold as a potential target, offhand?

It's possible that, as Camil has surpassed Harold's story, the Mirror itself becomes something more that encompasses the entity that effectively sparks the entire events of the game. IOW I think I agree that the Mirror, in the end, encompasses both Harold and Zelphie's roles.

I'm basically not sold on "His" being Zelphie, I guess I'm saying. I think the end three rooms are definitely connected to Zelphie, which is rather interesting, but overall, I think it's more Harold's/far more strongly connected to Harold and his story.

(It's possible the "His" is ambiguous precisely for this reason; while singular, it doesn't preclude referring to Harold until after The Final Battle as Planned, and then referring to Zelphie afterward.)

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

What if His Memory was Harold's, making the last three doors famous things about Zelphie? His sword must've been known across The Continent.

Einander posted:

[To Torokasi]
I don't think the mirror itself actually means anything; to my knowledge, it's never brought up. It probably has its own story behind it, what with Aaron Aaron's "habits," but that doesn't mean that history is relevant to Camil's use of it.

I'm pretty sure she's just being dramatic. (Is "just" appropriate here, when her powers are probably half presentation? A storyteller needs an audience, after all.)

[To Hitlers Gay Secret]
Oh, that's certainly also possible. The Final Battle as Planned is the strongest argument for it being Harold, and Zelphie is famous enough that the connections to Zelphie in His Memory can be explained. I just think that the argument for Zelphie is more convincing. (Aeritz is a distant third place, and then the list of possibilities more-or-less ends.)

It's not an area where we have the information to definitely state one way or the other, though, and I don't really mind that.

EagerSleeper posted:

This game has been a lot about people being able to identify with characters in stories. I especially like how Kumo was enthralled by the Demon King Chronicle's chapter about the white whale symbolizing weak-willed goodness (even if there was a reason for that since it was based off of his and Aeritz's inability to kill Zelphie).

So, I do agree that His Memory is probably Zelphie's. I think that Camil accessing His Memory with the mirror is because she's looking into herself and being able to identify traits that Zelphie had. They're both heroes after all.

EagerSleeper posted:

OK, there’s a lot that I don’t remember after so long and so much, but I’m going to try and theorize based on what stuck out to me.

In this game, stories about heroes is a motivating factor used to overcome the problems that the reader has within themselves.

His memory is definitely Zelphie’s memory. Zelphie was THE big Hero in the history of this game’s plot (at least before he got sick, and lost his mind), and for the most part, a lot of characters in the game based their lives around his mythic status. Camile looks into the mirror in order to realize heroic traits within herself that she has in common with the Hero, Zelphie, in a manner not unlike how a reader would be inspired to be more like Harry Potter who was brave, or like Aang who managed to live by his own choice, or etc.


Dr Pepper posted:

Though, I still have no idea what on earth was Laylaria's deal.

Valkama posted:

My interpretation of Laylaria is she had a pretty shitty life which is why she escaped to the island. Unfortunately though she was never able to find the ending to her own story. Because of this she hates stories. She would go out of her way to sneak into peoples rooms and destroyed their stories and chucked them into the hole in the ground because she hates them so much.

That also leads into another topic. Ever wonder what happened to Aeritz?

Einander posted:

There was someone staying here until a little while ago... Unfortunately, The Coward took care of him... So, now we have a vacant room. Please, make yourself at home.

Valkama posted:

(I don't recall if you bought this or not)Aeritz's sword is also in Aaron's shop

Einander posted:

The game conflates stories and lives, so I think Laylaria is essentially supposed to be a mirror to Aaron Aaron. Aaron Aaron can't write stories and admires those who can. (Harold, and possibly Camil, judging by the "only you can finish this" at the end.) Laylaria can't "write her own story"--or, worse yet, has no story to write--and loathes those who can and do.

[quoting the last part of Valkama's post above]

It's been ages since I looked at the Zenigalas, but yeah, you're right. Wow.

The Coward is, in the context of the game, kind of pathetic. And then they just drop the three hints--"Aeritz was here," "the Coward took care of him," the Zenigalas--at points where you're unlikely to connect the dots. And it really does make her so much more awful.

I kind of love this game's writing.

(Aaron Aaron is damn lucky Kumo never walked into that shop. Laylaria too, for that matter.)

Feldherren posted:

Regarding Laylaria, is it possible she's a Native, or related to one? Or just knew more about the history of the Island? She doesn't like flowers, and she doesn't like rats.
Though she's also from 'a good family', so it may just be generic disgust.

Einander posted:

It's more likely that she'd hate flowers and rats if she wasn't a native. Remember, The Disease affected both The Continent and The Island, but there are still flowers on The Island, while they've been totally wiped out on The Island due to fear of the rats that carry The Disease. And when rats (and only rats) carry an incredibly lethal plague, anyone that eats them regularly is going to be viewed as crazy at best and downright suicidal at worst--as the upcoming update shows, The Disease hasn't been totally eradicated.

EagerSleeper posted:

Why is The Coward a Coward? She killed Aeritz because he had just managed to muster up that inner courage he needed to leave the Nest (hohoho, see what they did there?) and return to the mainland. He had just conquered his inner problems and was ready to go be all heroic, a bright light which only illuminated all the cracks inside Laylaria’s person, so she did what she made sense for her to do when confronted with someone who is a living embodiment of someone who was ready to tackle life: by getting rid of him just like everything else. If she could’ve dumped him in the Hole with the rest of the chronicles, she probably would’ve.

The Disease

Feldherren posted:

Were we ever told what the disease actually was? A disease that just kills people and a disease that makes everyone insane and try to kill everyone else has more or less the same effect in the end. The latter is treated as scarier, though. Zombies, rage virus, et cetera.
That's what I came to think of Zelphie's madness at some point, anyway. There was really nothing to support it, and I think the only thing I know he came into contact with from the Island was Harold's book.

Einander posted:

We don't know exactly what The Disease does, but... Remember, every single enemy in The Disease area is called "Deformity," and just about every other non-Story enemy is a normal animal. The Disease, meanwhile, has hydras, horrible shrieking butterflies, poison bears, giant dragons, weird bird things, and cave goats. So either The Disease warps people and animals into monsters, or it's a metaphor and it does the last metaphorically (like a rage virus, yes), or it's a metaphor and and The Disease does horrible things to its victims.

That said, Zelphie's illness is almost certainly not The Disease or they would have called it that instead of "a strange illness." The Disease was present on both The Continent and The Island, and it's implied to be worse on The Continent--flowers, which fed the rats that carried it, were totally exterminated on The Continent, but they're still around on The Island. (And SOME people must have survived it on The Island--someone had to dig all of those graves in The Disease area, after all.) The Chronicle was written before Zelphie went ill, and just before it was written, flowers were rare enough that a gift of one was a notable event.

I think that [Zelphie's illness is] meant to basically be a meaningless event, because it's more tragic that way.

So I'm guessing The Disease has pretty horrible symptoms. Maybe it's Ebola? If rats were the primary carrier, then it'd have to have some infection vector outside of fluid contact, and a variant of Ebola that was airborne would be utterly horrifying.

EagerSleeper posted:

Now, what certain sections of the Disease symbolizes I have no idea beyond ‘it was bad,’ or what some of the sudden scene changes that happened in the final dungeon meant, I have no idea. But I do like that in this world, where magic is a skill that actually exists, a problem that exists in our mundane world too, disease, manages to be the thing that has ruined so many lives. That really made me empathize with the fears and pathos of everyone in the game, and only whenever it comes do I remember that these traumatized people trying to make it to a better place in life can also raise walls of fire from their hands. This game is a labor of love, and really hits that fantasy-but-real feeling pretty good.


Feldherren posted:

Do we know how old Randolf is? Or, rather, how much younger he is than Nana. Would three years after Aeritz tried to fight over the book be around when Zelphie beat the woman who was probably Randolf's mother (and, if Nana is his sister, Zelphie's daughter or daughter-in-law) to death? That sounds like either an early insane act, or maybe something that set it off.

Einander posted:

Randolf is born after her grandfather very neatly beats Nana's friend to death. I'm guessing he wasn't showing signs of his illness before then, or else she probably wouldn't have dared go meet him. Nana's said to be three when Aeritz steals half of the Chronicle, so if Randolf's born just after Zelphie's illness pops up, then she's about six years older than Randolf.

If Aeritz and Kumo attacked Zelphie nineteen years after he stole the book and a few years passed after that, then at the time the game takes place, Randolf is around 18 and Nana is about 24. Camil was born before the Demon King Chronicle was finished, before it floated to The Continent, and before it became famous enough for Aeritz to go after Zelphie's copy, so she's probably a year or two older than Nana. 25 or 26, then. I'm guessing Kumo isn't too much older than her, despite his Stubble Superhero look.

It's hard to tell with anime art styles, but the cast of this game is surprisingly old for this sort of story.

Valkama posted:

Camil is 21.
Nana is 24.
Randolf is 18.

Not sure about the others and I could be off by a year due to ambiguity. Basically Camil was born after Ares gave the flower to the woman which was 21 years ago. (That's pretty set in stone). Nana was 3 when the book was in the hands of Zelphie so while she could be younger I'm going with 24. If you assume Randolf is born around the same time Nana's friend was beaten up by Zelphie you'll find out he's 7 years younger than her making him 17.

Edit: Upon closer inspection it's more reasonable to assume Randolf is 18 and Nana is 25 (Thank you Flodnar's Diary)

Edit 2: Ignore what I said about Nana. She must be at least 6 years older than Randolf. Randolf is confirmed to be 18 by Flodnar's diary and Glossary entries so she is 24.

Edit 3: Fuck it I'm making a timeline

60 BeforeDKC
Zelphie is Born

Flodnar Leaves his Village

Nana is Born

Ares Gives woman a flower
Camil is Born
Harold Writes the Demon King Chronicle
Zelphie Aquires the Demon King Chronicle
Aeritz steals chapters two and three

3 AfterDKC
Zelphie Goes Mad
Joel is Beaten up by Zelphie
Randolf is Born
Randolf's Mother is killed and Randolf is abandoned
Flodnar finds Randolf

Randolf gets sick
Randolf and Flodnar move to the island

Flodnar Disappears

Aeritz and Kumo Battle Zelphie and flee to the island

Nana reunites with Joel
Nana goes to the island

Camil Appears on the island
Transcending time...the story final reaches its conclusion.

(the above post was edited after Valkama's comments below, so subsequent comments may not map exactly)

Einander posted:

Three issues with the timeline:

1) As I argued before, the "Zelphie is known as the Hero 20 years later" thing in Zelphie's Glossary entry flat-out contradicts Kumo's story and also basically everything we know about Zelphie. This is after he's been an insane tyrant for 17 years. Kumo's story, meanwhile, suggests that Zelphie's been treated like a hero for 40 years (21 BDKC) and became king 20 years before (1 BDKC). This makes a lot more sense.

2) We really have no idea how long it is between the failed attack on Zelphie and the start of the game. Randolf's age appears to pinpoint the story a bit, but even that's inconclusive; the next-to-last entry in Flodnar's diary says Randolf was 10, and Randolf's Glossary entry says he lived on the island for 8 years after Flodnar vanished, but we don't know how long it is between any two entries in that diary. I think it's one to three years, but I'm really just guessing.

3) The 0 entry looks a lot more implausible if you think about it. I mean, let me add to that:

Ares meets Harold
Ares goes back to The Continent and gives pregnant woman a flower
Ares and Harold meet seven more times during her intermittent trips to and from The Island, during which time Harold's health slowly deteriorates
Camil is born
Harold fails to complete the Demon King Chronicle
The Demon King Chronicle is set adrift
The Demon King Chronicle floats to The Island
Zelphie acquires the Demon King Chronicle
The Demon King Chronicle is published in small numbers
The Demon King Chronicle develops a theorizing fandom
The Demon King Chronicle becomes famous
Inspired by its fame, Aeritz steals chapters two and three of the original Chronicle

I'm not buying that as all happening in a year, even if you assume Ares and Harold had their first and last meetings in the space of a single month and that a devastating plague (probably occurring anywhere from 25 to 50 BKC) changed population dynamics in favor of centralization and that they're safely past the point of worrying about the impacts of devastating population growth on a civilization's subsistence.

So I'm pretty sure Camil is at least 23.

(I'm probably going to work this timeline into a "threadtalk about the story" post for the thread's archiving at some point, so I may as well do my part to iron it out, you know?)

Tallgeese posted:

Yeah, the "20 years before Zelphie became the Hero" makes no sense.

Maybe it's a simple translation error and they meant "after"? That seems like it would fix everything.

Think about it: Zelphie has been known as a Hero for exactly 20 years, Aeritz promises to get that sort of reputation in 19. What Aeritz is really saying is that he will surpass Zelphie, ever so slightly.

That's also why there's the bit about keeping your word. Zelphie did, Aeritz didn't, which is another way he failed to surpass Zelphie.

Valkama posted:

I just read the original Japanese text. The little parentheses seem to say "Zelphie Eluonto took until 20 years to be called a hero"(Correct Tallgeese) I need to just read the original text when making theories from now on.

According to Aaron Aaron(Also in the Japanese text) a flower was handed to a village woman 21 years ago. So I don't see any way for Camil to be older than 21.

After The End

Valkama posted:

As far as Nana's grandpa goes we don't exactly know what happens with him. He could still be ruling the continent with an iron fist or he might have been slain by someone eventually or just died of old age. We can only hope for the best.

Einander posted:

On the topic of Zelphie Eluonto...

Nana is going back to start the story of Nana Eluonto, and her time on The Island was all about overcoming her old connections to Zelphie. Hiku Kumo presumably has some interest in fulfilling Aeritz's last goal (even if Aeritz really just wanted to steal a book). The Mole is explicitly heading back to defeat Zelphie. Nana's shown pushing a wheelchair, and the person in it has hair color similar to hers. Randolf is shown in the extra art picture "Siblings" (posted it back in update 10), where the same old man is shown; said picture combines with Nana's backstory and their similarities to suggest that Randolf is Nana's younger brother. His abandonment is probably somehow due to Zelphie, because he's Zelphie and he does that sort of thing. Another picture in the art pack ("Hey...") has Randolf, sword drawn, in front of an old long-haired man in what looks like a dungeon; said old man is in a pair of hand manacles. The art style's different on that one, but if the man in the wheelchair is Zelphie, then the man in the dungeon is Zelphie too.

The apparently official conclusion, then, is that everyone who returns to The Continent (except Camil, anyway) goes and breaks Zelphie's fragile old man kneecaps, Starcaller or no Starcaller. Or Nana and Randolf, or just Nana, because Happy Ending Supremacy is that good. Presumably Nana and Randolf figure out that they're related after, judging by the way Nana's got a grip on Randolf's arm in "Siblings."

Valkama posted:

One thing probably worth mentioning about the 1 dollar art work is that the creator released it on April 1st claiming he was making a sequel. Regardless I'm pretty sure the person Nana is rolling around in the wheel chair is the boy in her story.

Einander posted:

See, I'd agree if not for album03 in said art pack, where the person with the long hair looks a lot older than Nana or Randolf--his hair is clearly gray. Plus, if he's the boy from Nana's story, then Randolf is the one who rescues him from the dungeon, and that doesn't seem right. That's not how stories like that work.

Valkama posted:

My interpretation is the person in album03 and the guy in the wheel chair aren't the same people.
Edit: In Nana's story #4 you can kind of make out a wheel chair if you look at him close enough.

"Very slowly punching a book to death"

Valkama posted:

Also Einander great LP, looking forward to cave chronicle. One thing that you might not be aware of though is the book in fact is not invincible! If you use your bare hands and have over 500 attack you are able to damage it. It's a fun little challenge. You get nothing out of it though except you can skip the later phases of the boss.

Einander posted:

What the fuck, game devs. I stuffed about two hundred Attack Ups in Camil's maw to try this out, because that really sounds like some "surf over and move the truck and you get Mew" crap, but... No, all three parts are totally true.

I mean, I was planning to show off something in the final battle anyway, after the postgame, but... Seriously, what the fuck?

edit: Also corrected some of my facts in the final battle post, thanks to facts discovered while very slowly punching a book to death. The mention of the book-punching will wait until said second final battle post.

SSNeoman posted:

Edit: that's the best mental image: Camil training up in using swords, some of which were willed into existence. Then she straps them on her back, yells "fuck you, book!" to buff up and then punches it in its dumb face. Cover. Whatever.
Randolf and Aeritz just stand on the sidelines, slack-jawed, ocasionally throwing her a potion.

GilliamYaeger posted:

Very slowly punching a book to death - Lets Play Demon King Chronicle!