The Let's Play Archive

Dominions 3

by Lilli et al.

Part 78: Lanka - Turn 23

Turn 23 - Blind Faith

Fire gems are nice. This event is tied to heat scales, which I have.

Ah, this is what the message was about last turn. Lilli and I have made a deal.

On turn 22 posted:

Lilli: In case you hadn
Lilli: hadn't notice, pan is blood saccing
(see, I totally wasn't making this up, people really emphasized this in the backroom dealmaking. It barely got a mention in the "public" game channel)

On turn 22 posted:

Lilli: Ill send the gems this turn
Lilli: If he dies, well
TheDemon: ok, W D or N
Lilli: We can just trade back
Lilli: D
TheDemon: right
TheDemon: so with no disruptions, it'll be 2 turns of forging and 1 of sending
TheDemon: and as this is on the border I may have to retreat
Lilli: Yeah thats understandable
TheDemon: well, if it comes to that it'll be more a withdrawal than a retreat
TheDemon: or that's what I'll tell my loyal fans in the thread anyway
TheDemon: that's kind of sad that I'm the only one who has an E3 right now
TheDemon: if you can find someone else with one, things would be less tentative
Lilli: Arco has no interest in trading
Lilli: Builds could probably forge me one, but he would need boots too
Lilli: Honestly of my choices
Lilli: Builds and you have the least interest in screwing me over
Lilli: If your pretender dies between forging you your hammer and forging me my hammer I'll probably ask for my 11 earth gems and 4 extra death back, if thats okay with you
Lilli: Simply because Im paying the premium on actually getting a hammer <_<
TheDemon: if you wanted the hammer instead, what would you prefer your refund to be
Lilli: Oh wait huh
TheDemon: or our mutual refunds, as the case may be
Lilli: probably just death gems
Lilli: To be honest, I got my D3/B3 hero, so Im using him to forge skull mentors.
TheDemon: ok, well if there is going to be any pretender death it'll be this turn
TheDemon: I think
Lilli: Thats understandable
Lilli: I should clarify
Lilli: If he dies this turn
Lilli: I just want my earth gems back to trade to someone else
TheDemon: of course
Lilli: However
Lilli: Hrmmmm
Lilli: I am shorter on E gems than I remember, I only have 17. However, there is someone i can probably trade with
Lilli: I will send you 15 this turn
Lilli: And get someone to send me the extra 9
Lilli: Then send the rest next turn
Lilli: Does that sound good?
Lilli: (I was apparently remembering water gems, which I do have 23 of)
TheDemon: that's fine
TheDemon: 15 then 11 by various sources is fine

The overall deal: 15 E gems, then 11 E gems, in exchange for 11 D gems and a forged Dwarven Hammer.
In essence, I forge myself a Hammer with the first 15E, then I forge Lilli a Hammer with the next 11E using my Hammer, then send it to her.

The above conversation was started in the game channel, so naturally it is subject to meddlers who want to interfere.

During and after the above, on turn 22 posted:

Dexanth: I can
Dexanth: trade you a hammer
Dexanth: Namely you dont give any aid t o Lilli or IoD
TheDemon: IoD is helping me with a project
Dexanth: What project
TheDemon: disrupting sauro
Dexanth: Hnngh
Dexanth: Something tells me he wont live up to his end
Dexanth: on the grounds that TC is going to force all his forces south
Dexanth: Plus, of course, I actually have hammers, and if you have E to send, can probably forge it next turn -at- discounted rate
TheDemon: that's very convenient but, the politics of my situation make it pretty much impossible for me to not end up working together with one of Lilli or iod
TheDemon: unless I can convince builds to back the fuck off
TheDemon: and he has this hard-on for trying to kill dangerous players
Dexanth: Hmm
Dexanth: I can try that for you
TheDemon: I'd be ok if one of builds or dawkish would call it quits
Dexanth: I want Builds to stop so he can counterinvade Lilli
Dexanth: is my goal
Dexanth: But were I to do this, you'd need to stop aiding Lilli or IoD in any way, shape, or form
Dexanth: Or at least
Dexanth: I should say not aid Lilli
Dexanth: Ideally no aiding IoD either, but she's the one I want marginalized
Dexanth: Based on my E income, if you sent me 4 E bare minimum, I can forge a hammer next turn
TheDemon: are we talking an attempt to get builds to stop, or success of said attempt
Dexanth: Well
Dexanth: Hammer is contingent on simply ignoring Lilli
Dexanth: If I can get builds to stop, then the price of that is ignoring both her & IoD
Dexanth: Given that Lilli cant really -offer- you anything, as she has her hands totally full with me
Dexanth: and also IoD is clearly attempting to blood sac a significant amount right now
TheDemon: I'll have to refuse
TheDemon: I'm quite worried about long-term survival
Dexanth: Hnnmm
Dexanth: What part is unfeasible?
TheDemon: you're a good ally, but you really can't do anything for me. if I take either of your agreements I'm locked into a diplo situation that precludes any significant outside assistance
Dexanth: Well
Dexanth: Lilli -cant- assist you
Dexanth: unless I die
TheDemon: I don't suppose you'd consider my gems for your gold trades?
TheDemon: separate to what we talked about, I mean
Dexanth: I dont have gold available
Dexanth: Iod choked my cap with revelers
TheDemon: right
TheDemon: I doubt anyone does
TheDemon: thanks anyway
Dexanth: Ok, how about this :
Dexanth: As long as you aid Lilli in no way shape or form
Dexanth: towards Hammer Access
Dexanth: I'll get yours up and running
Dexanth: Which would include funnelling it through IoD :3
Dexanth: Basically I just need to ensure her economy stays inefficient
Dexanth: And honestly I cant see any way her joining in on Builds unless I suddenly die which uh
Dexanth: wont happen
Dexanth: It is to the point where I will do anything reasonable
Dexanth: to aid you
Dexanth: to cripple her
Dexanth: I mean, the thing is, Mictlan & Pan arent at all poised to hit Sauro & Mict
Dexanth: they're both in giant wars, they cant afford another overt invasion
TheDemon: I'm just not really sure what I get out of it. hammers are fine, but they're long term
TheDemon: really my situation is just shitty all round though
Dexanth: Well yes
Dexanth: My point is
TheDemon: I got disconnected after My point is
Dexanth: Well like I was saying, I can offer short term aid
Dexanth: if you have air gems, I have seeking arrows
Dexanth: if you have E & S, I have matrices
Dexanth: if you have fire, I have FFA
TheDemon: if I have none of the above
Dexanth: Well you said you had gems for gold
TheDemon: except my own seeking arrows
Dexanth: Eh, I dont know what your research is :3
TheDemon: hah, well you named the four gem types I don't have much of
TheDemon: or any
TheDemon: I suppose I could provide A for arrows
TheDemon: but my opponents are all using high hp commanders
Dexanth: Hnnmm
Dexanth: Well, if you wetre to sell air for gold
Dexanth: how much are we talking here
Dexanth: I might be able to reapportion my gold some this turn
TheDemon: hm
TheDemon: I need 2 a turn for SPOILER REDACTED and am at +1, I suppose I could trade 10
TheDemon: for ummmm 250 gold?
TheDemon: its almost not worth it to trade them though
Dexanth: caaant do 250 this turn
Dexanth: I could maybe buy 4 @ 6
Dexanth: er, hnngh
TheDemon: if there's one thing I might need more than gold it might be air gems
Dexanth: no, yea, this turn that wont work
Dexanth: Well if you have Fire I could buy them @20 each
Dexanth: Ditto for E
TheDemon: I'll keep that in mind if I ever get any fire

And I do some meddling of my own:

Turn 22 posted:

TheDemon: about tbtf
TheDemon: how is things going in your corner
TheDemon: of the world
iod: I want to say disastrous but probably merely miserable would be a fairer assessment
TheDemon: I heard TC has invaded you
iod: indeed
TheDemon: and that you are blood saccing
iod: Yeah. I was planning on just 1-2 turns to prop up scales in my territory, but am thinking maybe I should just stick with it now.
iod: Since I think everyone on the map who I'm not currently in hostile relations with can also sac
iod: Except for poor you
iod: And you have a buffer state or two
TheDemon: everyone seems convinced you are going for major blood sac
iod: That's sort of the default assumption given any sign of blood sac from anyone not mictlan, isn't it?
iod: It's silly but I won't blame them for being wrong
iod: Even if the paranoia and resulting backlash actually makes a major sac attempt more likely
iod: Which is sort of funny
TheDemon: well, I would appreciate it if you both didn't die and also convinced the various people annoyed at you to back down thanks in advance
iod: who's on the list there besides TC and Arcos
TheDemon: its just them
iod: who can both choke on dead virgins and die so far as I am concerned
TheDemon: Lilli also is convinced you're going for major sac, but she's probably on your side regardless
iod: Dexanth is already never ever going to forgive either of us, and I am sufficiently annoyed at TC that I'm totally happy to shelve my plans against Sauro to fight him until one of us is dead
TheDemon: ok
TheDemon: how threatening is he
TheDemon: if you can get him to pull everything north
TheDemon: I might be able to send in a raiding party
iod: Pretty threatening; his army chart didn't dip nearly enough for the ~50 troops he lost this turn
TheDemon: but he would have to be incapable of offensive action in the south for me to consider it
iod: At least most of the wot5e he had along died
iod: looks like ~3-5 made it out
iod: But he's going to demolish me along our other front
iod: honestly I expect him to win
TheDemon: can you domkill sauro before you die then
iod: Maybe
iod: How far north does his dom extend
TheDemon: 29, probably 32
iod: I have him mapped out as 1 candle in 15, 3 in 5, 4 in 3, and 5 in 13. TC's going to take a long time to kill me unless Arco gets sufficiently free to join in the attempt, but he'll shut down 1/3rd of my temples in ~two turns.
iod: I guess I can have that dryad in his cap do some preaching too
iod: any chance his second fort/accompanying temple gets torched in the near future?
TheDemon: I'd say it's less likely rather than more likely
iod: pity
iod: well, there's a chance then but I probably wouldn't count on it

The bolded part convinces me that I would actually have gotten proper military help against Sauro had Dexanth not interfered. So you could say I'm passively-aggressively annoyed with Dexanth, although I'm not really the kind of person to hold a diplo grudge.

Still on turn 22 posted:

TheDemon: reason I'm asking is, Dexanth is trying to make a deal with me which is contingent on my diplo reactions to certain parties
Lilli: Ah
Lilli: Am I allowed to know what hte deal is?
Lilli: And why it has to relate to my relationship with builds
TheDemon: which in practical terms would mean basically forming alliance blocs
Lilli: Or am I to stay in the dark
TheDemon: you and he are fighting, correct?
Lilli: Arco and I are, yes.
TheDemon: I can tell you if you don't tell anyone
TheDemon: meaning anyone
Lilli: Yeah I can do that
Lilli: I tend to keep my diplomacy secret
Lilli: I am curious how much an alliance bloc could possible form though
Lilli: To be honest
Lilli: IoD is pissing off most of his neighbors
Lilli: Builds and Sauro are entirely committed to invading you
TheDemon: the irony of spilling diplo secrets based on a promise to keep diplo secret is not lost on me
Lilli: Hahah
TheDemon: contingent on dexanth successfully persuading builds to stop fighting me, I'd need to stop aiding Lilli or IoD in any shape or form
Lilli: Ahhhh
TheDemon: and he wants to persuade builds to "counterinvade" you
Lilli: I'll be honest, Im doubtful he could convince builds to do this at this point
Lilli: Builds is a little skeptical of Dexanth, and builds and I are on good terms.
TheDemon: ok
Lilli: And I think its fairly unlikely that Builds would stop invadign you
Lilli: Unless dawkish stopped invading you too
TheDemon: do you know of any other wars going on right now
Lilli: TC is invading IoD
Lilli: Im assuming it's dexanth's doing
TheDemon: yes
Lilli: Though TC is claiming its revelers in his territory
TheDemon: I heard about that but didn't know if it had already happened
Lilli: Im doubtful of him
Lilli: He stopped talking to me after 'getting his troops into position to invade arco'
Lilli: So I assumed dexanth had gotten to arco
Lilli: errr
Lilli: gotten to feinne*
TheDemon: gah
TheDemon: I'm going to have to put a diplo effort into this game
Lilli: IoD parked revellers in Arco's capital supposedly
Lilli: But thats all hes done to committ to an Arco invasion
Lilli: commit*
Lilli: I think he'll be mostly busy with Feinne now
Lilli: Most players have a vested interest in pursuing what they are doing right now
Lilli: Which is why I am doubtful of many factors changing.

Hopefully that gives you a feel for TheDemon Diplomacy. It isn't all RARGH I WILL KILL YOU oh but I won't if you sign this contract. Even though these people aren't neighbors or military allies I am still working closely with them.

This message, which I can unfortunately not access after the fact, is going out to Sauro. Dawkish has now entered the super busy IRL part where he was eventually subbed out, so I can't catch him on IRC. But I know if I send an in-game message it will be read, at the very least.

I extoll how this fight is getting both of us nowhere, I point out that Pan's blood sac is directly threatening him, because look at this dominion graph:

And it's true, that is in fact a threatening blood sac...... to Sauro. So far everyone else is fine.

And most importantly, I'm able to summon the courage to make the first move:
(and I was super nervous that this would be the end of me, if it didn't work)

I'm off to beat up Mr. Stubborn Hinnom some more. Sauro can stew and do nothing, he can counter-invade, or he might take my message to heart and go deal with the blood saccer. Hopefully I got through to him. If not, well, I'm not going to sit on my ass and do nothing while I slowly lose any advantage I might have.

By the way, originally, I was going to build a Lab and then a Fort in Peninsula of Awesomeness. You may have noticed my messages with Lilli about our trade are predicated on this. But then I realized I would have to leave my pretender unprotected there because of my actions with regard to my proposal to Sauro, so I decided to move the pretender back to the cap.

Next turn: All Quiet

edit: Yell at me if the chatlogs are too long or stupid. I think dom3 diplo in an lp might be an exception to the general thought about chatlogs on a forum but maybe I am wrong? Nevermind, they are wildly popular